Comments on: First Link Ridership Numbers

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:09:33 +0000

I suspect that like CATS and Hiawatha, Link ridership will far exceed expectations. The real test will be next year after the Airport station opens and the first round of Link related bus service revisions are complete. I think Sound Transit is likely to be pleasantly surprised by the 2010 ridership numbers. I don’t doubt Central Link will hit it’s 2015 numbers well before then.

By: Barman

Barman — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:00:11 +0000

I just want to add that Link looks much prettier too.

By: Barman

Barman — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:59:21 +0000

It’s a bit early to compare the two system’s ridership numbers. But overall, Link is a much higher capacity system. It will handle 4 car trains as soon as U-Link is done. Each car has a passenger capacity of 200, compared to MAX’s 166. That means 800 passengers per train for Link and 332 for MAX. Link is also mostly grade separated which allows for higher frequencies and less traffic problems.

Sure MAX is quaint, but with Sounder + WSF + Future Link + the planned Seattle Streetcar expansions, Seattle has much higher transit ridership than Portland overall and will continue so in the future.

By: Adron

Adron — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:26:47 +0000

I’m stoked for Seattle, really awesome that the city has a started LRT system. I just gotta brag though – our LRT numbers on all our lines are better than the 12k a day, in addition our streetcar handles about 12k a day. Which of course means our streetcar needs more frequency during the day because its like a sardine can and our light rail is doing pretty good considering it is limited to two car trains.

Good thing you guys up north have a system able to handle 3 car trains. When things, as mentioned, get really rolling and that 20k+ number is hit those 3 car trains will be really nice. The blue line MAX in PDX hit I believe 30k some days and it is a sardine during rush hour…

Sure beats the hell out of all those people pushed out into SOV cars!!! :)

Best of luck on next steps… I’ll be reading.

By: Galen

Galen — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 02:18:27 +0000

For Lynx light rail in Charlotte

Ridership levels have continued to surprise CATS managers and planners – pleasantly. CATS had originally projected an average ridership of 9,100 weekday trips for the first year of operation, but so far that number has consistently remained above 12,000, according to CATS officials. (See: Charlotte: New light rail line’s ridership exceeds forecast by 35%.) The line is 11 miles long from downtown to south suburbs of Charlotte.

Hiawatha light rail in Minneapolis…gotta be glad we have prepared for 4 car trains while they haven’t. They currently have 37,000 riders per weekday with 2 car trains.
2009 Expansion of existing stations
During the summer of 2009, the existing stations on the line will be expanded, lengthening the boarding areas. This will permit the use of 3-car trains, instead of the 2-car trains that are the current maximum. This allows the line to meet the continually growing demand, without adding additional trains to the schedule, or adding more drivers. The expansions are scheduled to be completed by March, 2010. In 2008, passengers increased by 20% over 2007. And this is already 20% over the original projected ridership for the year 2020.

By: Mike Orr

Mike Orr — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:21:59 +0000

Thanks. And the capacity at the Tukwila IB station? How are the TVMs and parking spaces holding up on typical weekdays?

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:38:16 +0000

I believe the plan is for 3 or 4 minute headways on the segment from downtown to Northgate as well. This should (hopefully) be more than enough to handle the demand. I’m not sure what the next step is if the segment from downtown to Northgate maxes out on capacity. Converting the I-5 express lanes to rail?

By: Martin H. Duke

Martin H. Duke — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:22:00 +0000

If you’re talking about replacing ridership on the 41 and the 70s you are talking about a period where they can run 4-car trains.

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:13:10 +0000

How does 12,000 daily boardings compare to first weeks of other recent light rail starter lines? Minneapolis is probably the most salient comparison, since they also opened a partial segment shortly before opening a later connection to an airport. It would be interesting to see a comparison with Houston, Phoenix, Charlotte, etc, too, though, if anyone has the data.

By: Colin

Colin — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:42:01 +0000

To be fair, they don’t have the ability to run 4 car trains yet, and I have not heard anything about running less than 3 minute headways.

That said, 3-car trains running at 3 minute headways have a capacity of 12,000 passengers per hour per direction. That’s equivalent to a 6-lane (each direction) freeway. They’ve got plenty of capacity.

By: Galen

Galen — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:34:32 +0000

I thought Phoenix already has a light rail stop at Skyharbor airport?

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:28:59 +0000

Hey LA doesn’t either, nor Denver, SLC or Sacramento. Phoenix comes close, but they’re building some sort of people mover. It also took Portland 17 years to get their airport line in and it took Vancouver even longer and we nearly beat Vancouver’s line to the airport! I do use BART when flying into SFO and love it!

By: AJ

AJ — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:11:18 +0000

Here’s the problem, though: all those travel time benefits will go out the door when 520, I-90 and the AWV are being worked on at almost the same time. Buses on I-5 and 99 coming up from the South End will be part of the expected multi-year slog.

By: AJ

AJ — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:05:19 +0000

Let me put it in very simple elementary school terms: repeatedly asking someone “why doesn’t your particular demographic do this” will make them not do it themselves (or at least reconsider).

In political circles it’s called push polling.

By: Squints

Squints — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:52:20 +0000

pretty much none of what you just said makes any sense.

By: AJ

AJ — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:02:11 +0000

There are no restrictions on ridership and trying to force a demographic scale on this line (or any line) could be considered red-lining since it would make the line appear as serving demographics rather than a neighborhood and would thus create a “forbidden zone” effect.

Racism is obvious in statements like “why doesn’t X group ride this” and is part of a self-fulfilling narrative. You ask the question repeatedly and suddenly, since one group heard the remark-as-a-question “why doesn’t your group ride”, they all assume there’s a good reason. It’s part of the reason class plays so heavily into bus ridership in most cities, since the question is often “why are most riders poor” and “why don’t the middle and upper class ride buses”.

It’s why the Seattle Weakly’s latest article is so fascinatingly racist, since it says “ONLY WHITE PEOPLE RIDE THIS, according to our first week observations, NO BLACK PEOPLE RIDE IT, and we won’t mention how many asians or otherwise ride”.

Nobody should feel bad for riding or not riding.

By: katie

katie — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:51:52 +0000

One issue with going through the Rainier Valley (I’m not saying problem because it was a conscious choice with benefits provided to many riders in that area) is that it makes light rail times slower than buses for riders as the line goes further south towards Federal Way. Even as Link is extended, travel times by bus will remain faster. Tim’s post about the 577 notes the fact that it is actually quite fast today (and very well-used), and as Link expands it will be extremely unpopular and possibly politically impossible to discontinue routes that are significantly faster just to feed people to Link. There have been a lot of complaints from people who complain that Link is slower than the 194, and the difference there is very small. The huge benefits of Link for the areas further south will be frequency, span, and reliability, not travel time. It will still be a hard sell to get rid of the peak express services from those areas, even if it makes the most sense in the overall transit network.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:50:03 +0000

For off-peak, it’s still cheaper to take the 194, and it’s probably preferable due to the lack of transfer.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:49:02 +0000

Oh! Evan, thanks. That does make more sense.

By: Martin H. Duke

Martin H. Duke — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:42:29 +0000

Mike,

When you’re running 4-car trains (800 pax total) and 2 minute headways, you can move 500,000 people a day from end to end. That’s more than the entire Metro system carries now, so I wouldn’t worry about capacity too much, especially since you’ll often carry 2 riders in a seat over an entire end-to-end run.